Pirelli webbing vs sinuous springs reddit. really basic (right).

Pirelli webbing vs sinuous springs reddit sarong wrap skirt short; smart view flip cover; Much less road noise vs P-Zero, better comfort also without sacrificing performance in either dry or wet conditions. Crypto C. Jackson Catnapper uses pocket coils cushions and sinuous springs, and goes a step further with a steel box spring frame, and an additional helper coil below them. Bartack the webbing to the bag with a larger piece of webbing between the daisy chain and the EPLX, then stitch the larger piece of webbing, then seamtape everything inside the bag. Sep 6, 2023 · Additionally, webbing may not be as durable as zigzag springs and may need to be replaced more frequently. " Also, without organic webbing, he may has well have been bitten by an ant or beetle, then just decided webs are cool. Also I heard they don’t make it anymore and it’s old stock they sell if you… Business, Economics, and Finance. The continentals we’ve installed on our vehicles in recent years haven’t made it past 25k. I love them. Possibly coils, but that would fall in with the tying issue. Track pricing on the SC3 DOT is less than the Rosso and SP sale pricing on Revzilla. Proponents of Eight-Way Hand-Tied say it offers superior comfort and support that lasts decades if it is done well. The difference is in both the physical properties of the webbing and the method of installation. We actually use Sinuous Springs in smaller products such as custom recliners, accent chairs and ottomans due to the small space. 8-Way Hand-Tied Springs - 8-Way Hand-Tied Springs: These are often considered the gold standard for sofa construction. The 3 most common in order of best to worst (usually) are eight way hand tied, sinuous or "no sag" springs, and webbing. 8 density foam will usually remain comfortable for 10+ years. My son and I both ran them in the spring before it was hot enough to keep heat in slicks at B pace. 5 density. Then burlap, and then I would do a rolled edge around the outside and a layer of rubberized hair under the foam since there’s so much space between the springs on the outside, Plus the rubberized hair will protect the foam from the ends of the springs/clips. Sinew is not the root word, but due to its proximity in sound, many attribute "sinuous" to mean "visible muscle", hence why "sinuous form of a cat" is describing its graceful but powerful form (as long as you don't get a fluffball or fat cat Continental vs. Pirelli webbing is a high quality, super strength webbing that is laced side to side and front to back multiple times. 0 density cushions. It’s like sitting on a bouncy mattress lol. The webbing used on cheap furniture has a lot of give and pull to it. Sinuous wire springs I am searching for two sofas that have all the style features I'm looking for and a fabric I love. Choose wisely for a cozy seating experience! Thank you! Overall my takeaway ended up being that for future furniture (new or repaired) I may lean towards webbing over springs. Zigzag springs offer excellent support and durability, while webbing might provide a more flexible and comfortable seating experience. What is a suspension system with regard to upholstered seating? What’s the difference between sinuous springs, 8-way hand-tied, and Pirelli webbing? Thanks for asking! 8 way, hand-tied springs are the cadillac of upholstery. This is weak support that could lead to sagging. Make sure you pull it really tight when you staple it/install it. Pirelli Rubber Webbing is a high quality, durable material that's used for chair and sofa upholstery. I always remove the zigzag springs and use 3" elastic webbing, it lasts so much longer and gives an even smooth comfort level across the sofa. You can pull on it and it gets Next ask about the spring/support system. Join and Discuss evolving technology, new entrants, charging infrastructure, government policy, and the ins and outs of EV ownership right here. But have a few concerns: Not sure if the frame built for webbing (pulling in) would structurally support springs (pushing out) Having said that, I'm sure you've all done the google and have come across Tyre Review in the UK and their comparison of the CC2 with the Pirelli AS SF2 (among others), and they claim that Pirelli have already tweaked the treads of the newer tires because, as of testing, they were nowhere near being any competition for the Michelins. 315/30-22 rears have not been though 7 tires in 25,000 miles. restaurants in dumbo with a view; And back to your 32-year-old stat of Pirelli vs Goodyear in 1991, that's a bit similar because Pirelli only supplied four teams against Goodyear supplying 14. At least for the seat if possible. I bought sprit kailh springs and it turns out my novelkeys speed navies are compatible with 16mm cherry mx springs and not kailh; I ended up using some springs I had left over from some c3 equalz x tkc kiwis instead of having to wait for kailh specific springs from monstargears. The best choice would be a well-executed Eight-Way Hand-Tied system with metal banding or webbing beneath. The Eagle H harness I’m looking to swap out . The springs may not sag, but they do squeak and snap fittings after 10 years, also put uneven pressure on the foam and will cut through from underneath over time. Difficulty In Differentiating While thinking of these hand-tied spring sofas, it is essential to note that some manufacturers currently produce the "drop-in" 8-way hand-tied units Sep 6, 2023 · Additionally, webbing may not be as durable as zigzag springs and may need to be replaced more frequently. Is there any easy way to tell what's failing? String, coils, webbing, or any combination. if there is no bounce the springs are too firm. In terms of comfort, sofa springs excel at offering excellent support and bounce. Organic webbing means Peter is always at maximun Spider-Man-ness all the time, and helps to promote his sense of isolation and feeling like an "other. Corners should be blocked, glued & screwed for strength. This Mar 1, 2013 · 8-way hand tied construction vs. If you want to go the pirelli web route remove the pieces of wood holding the springs on, make a new frame out of 1x1s with corner braces, install and tension the web then install the box. BTW the Torsion Springs can also be done safely too. It has hand tied springs supported by jute webbing. You can also buy new clips in packs of 20 that you use to attach to the webbing and then hammer into your chair slots. You're going to get a lot more out of the michelin than the pirelli, longevity wise and its a Honda BeAT kaya tatagal yan since di naman ganun kalakasan ang hatak. Broken Sofa Seat Jul 22, 2018 · If you seek a more budget-friendly and modern choice, a sinuous sofa might be a suitable alternative. Summer time they have never let me down with rain performance or road noise. This is a very traditional form of webbing. Pirelli Webbing. We're going to call some places Monday to see if they even do 8 way ties at all or just how much re-webbing would be. Apr 22, 2016 · Here is the thing. It has been redone at least once before - there are smaller tacks still in the frame. Browse our huge collection of high-quality feat uring a variety a styles and upholsteries to fit your needs and room décor. Searching around and seeing similar setups, I think the British-style, GP pounces in lieu of the butt pack, are the way. In this video Bill will show you how to determine the gauge of the springs, what clips are used to attach to the frame and how to install a new zigzag sinuous spring. Sinuous springs, which create a gentle "S" shape across the seat, offer a plush and relaxed feel. How are, in a nutshell, webbing, zig-zag, and coil sprung seat used? I have a fleeting idea of them. Polyester webbing has high UV resistance and strength. Always open a switch before buying springs. I will be reupholstering a Getama GE260 sofa and replace the original webbing, which is absolutely wasted, with Pirelli-webbing as it is what comes the closest to the old "Rotex" branded webbing. Sinuous springs vs eight way hand tied sinuous springs vs eight way hand tied hand tie vs sinuos spring hand tied springs vs pirelli webbing. What might fit in your hardware from one company won't from another despite both being the same gov ID, especially for hardware that only comes measured in metric like Fidlock buckles. I've narrowed it down to these brands: Hickory Chair, Wesley Hall, Lillian August, Hancock & Moore and Massoud. I have coil overs and run 300lb springs. Join us as we look beneath the surface at the most common upholstery suspension systems. Reddit gives you the best of the internet in one place. In conclusion, both zigzag springs and webbing have their own advantages and disadvantages. Conclusion. Sep 11, 2018 · Webbing offers a more affordable and lighter-weight option to spring-based suspension systems, but you’ll be trading away the comfortable bounce that springs and coils offer. Pirelli webbing is stated to have 10% stretch. A secondary choice which could also suffice would be a quality Drop-In Spring It is superior to sinuous springs, the next most common type of foundation found in modern style, high end seating. Last pair was 5,000 miles. Pretty similar on outright grip I think, but I liked the profile better on the pirelli. Finding the same sofa (it’s the Signature Design by Ashley Megginson 2-Piece Sectional in Storm) on another website it said the frame was constructed of hardwoods and plywood’s. The u/IGFJefff community on Reddit. But when do you use one over the other? 14K subscribers in the tires community. Make sure you ask for high density upholstery foam with the longest possible lifespan and it will remain bouncy for 20 years if used regularly. I don't remember if they were all season or not, no issues with the rain, it was the stock version, that came with my kia k5 2021 ex, they lasted for 30K, I believe those were summer tires, now I am using the yokohama avid ascend, I chose it as it last the longest and I am happy with them it does not feel as soft as other tires but I like them, and they still look like new and it doesn't slip. The webbing is simply stapled to the frame really basic (right). This suspension is made of zigzagging pieces of metal set in rows running perpendicular to the front of the sofa. Compared with the clips used in sinuous springs, twine is much better since a break of the string or twine can make no significant impact compared to a failed clip. It provides just the right amount of support and give when stretched across the furniture frame. A nice extra is down wrapped cushions, that is a really nice look. Sinuous Springs Vs Eight Way Hand Tied The Stated Home Blog. Does anyone know can you replace a couch webbing with springs? I have a few concerns: Not sure if the frame built for webbing (pulling in) would structurally support springs (pushing out) Not sure if padding is sufficient to not feel springs? There’s like 1. That 15% premium was well worth it, heck, I would pay twice that premium. They’re an excellent tire in the jack-of-all-trades category and they’re a great choice if you’re limited on space. 5” base foam on webbing then removable couch cushion, 4” thick The future of sustainable transportation is here! This is the Reddit community for EV owners and enthusiasts. The bands of webbing are traditionally manufactured about two to three inches in diameter. Look on amazon for 2 inch wide chair webbing, there are less expensive alternative to the rubber. I have a couple of questions about the webbing. ” Posted by u/knittedowl88 - 6 votes and 7 comments With that said, they perform equally well to the Pirelli in the dry and slightly better in the wet. The system holds 720 lbs per square inch, and is known to provide consistent comfort and support for years. feature Pirelli web seating, which is an elaborate hand tying seating system. I reupholstered a chair with dried out cracked webbing and it turned out great with the stuff on amazon. The problem I noticed with Blizzaks is that their performance seems to drop off with tread wear much worse than Haks or X-Ice. But if we just need to redo the jute webbing, that seems doable. However, upon trying British-style webbing (DZ right), I was pleased with the results. vegan lipstick brands uk. 8-Way HandTied is not recommended for smaller items. Usually a suspension described only as webbing does not have any springs. nars matte bronzer mini. Each support system has pros and cons, but some are better than others when it comes to longevity and quality. Webbing is the least favourable and most inexpensive method of construction. I have two vintage Danish lounge chair frames that need webbing (and cushions). Jan 27, 2022 · The Pirelli webbing spring system is a durable upper strap suspension system that sits under the couch cushion to provide support without other spring systems’ volume. However, it is very time and labor intensive, adding to overall cost. ebay. Where can I find pirelli webbing in the Toronto area? Very hard to find. Sinuous springs are good and hand tied springs arent necessary. Jute Webbing. I found it easier to get from side to side and you don’t run onto the edge as easily as the Bridgestone. Pirelli webbing as the main suspension is low rent, 8-way hand tied is the gold standard. Metal or Pirelli (rubber) webbing/banding supports the bottom. 0 or 3. Pirelli — opinions please! Hello. Sinous Springs Vs 8 Way Hand Tied Pirelli Webbing Wfmo. you can see some of them starting to twist a little. The strips are stretched across the seating frame and tacked into place to provide support for the cushions. Feb 2, 2019 · Laborers tie the springs eight different ways including side to side, diagonally and front to back. Learn about construction, durability, comfort, and more to make an informed choice that suits your preferences and budget. I went from Pirelli PZero Nero’s to the Michelin PS4S. Bartack the webbing with a piece of cordura 500D (I have some left) as a backing piece (+ seal the seams with liquid sealant from inside ?) D. However, stretchable webbing can eventually sag. Even down mix. These are typically in both stationary or recline furniture unless you see the perilli webbing or the 8 way hand tied spring system. They handle great. Tires. Also, on cheaper sofas, the webbing is often stapled into engineered wood frames that don't hold the staples very well. Yokohama vs. Personally I like the individual pocketed springs wrapped in foam on my sofa. Sinuous springs, also known as serpentine springs, are S-shaped wires that zigzag around a piece of furniture’s structure. Discover the best upholstery suspension system for your vehicle. However, it may stretch over time more than synthetic materials. If you are using webbing instead of springs, you need to use rubber webbing. 8 density or 2. My experience has been the complete opposite. The springs are supported by webbing on the underside of the sofa, and the top springs are secured by twine (which is where the name comes in)! The twine is hand-tied at 8 different spots for each spring, and then attached to the frame. My track day Pirelli vendor recommended the SC3 DOT. That's a landfill sofa in 5 years or less in most cases. they are rough and unforgiving. The new webbing is much better for sitting, but if I fall asleep in it then I wake up sunk in pretty far. Something like this: https://www. Basically, the burlap/ dacron creates a buffer to contain your springs from rubbing through your cushions. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. I've gone as far as getting prices for an upholsterer to replace the foam and it's not cheap, almost the same price to replace the couch. while i am in canada, i do have dedicated winter tires, so ima be using these for summer mostly, and since plus3 is slightly better in dry than cc2, its a better choice. The update: I did manage to get the springs installed, but after doing a cost/benefit analysis on the remaining time and energy I had left, I'm taking the L on salvaging this guy and looking for alternative resting options. Jul 2, 2024 · Consider the expected usage and maintenance requirements when assessing the durability of webbing compared to sofa springs. Both great tyres, it’s literally just a personal preference between the 2, but my preference is the pirelli Nov 5, 2023 · Sinuous springs are often utilised in seat cushions, whereas pocket coil springs are employed in high-end furniture to provide additional support and comfort. Pirelli rubber is good stuff! I once had a BMW 2002 with Pirelli tires on it. The springs are laid over webbing, sewn in place, and the springs are compressed to the desired firmness. They are then tied to the webbing in the compressed state, and then lashed and tied one to the other. Check the spring type as well. My P Zeros are puncture queens. Compatible with rubber webbing clips Ok, as title states. ca/i/262701939579?chn=ps&dispItem=1. I'd build boxes out of ply, put firm 4" on top and firm 1" on all the sides and sew the upholstery together and slip it over with the help of some super thin plastic then staple underneath and add dustcover and feet. Can I expect better from Michelin Pilot Sports? If it helps with some inspiration, this is what I run if I’m leaning towards the heavier side of things but the belt kit (Jayjay’s commander’s webbing) is more favorable in hot weather and mobility, and can be expanded with an assault pack or a bum roll (which I’ve still have yet to get). on the flip side, I know exactly when the car is planted. Choose the right option for optimal comfort and durability. Sinuous spring construction tends to fall in the middle of the price range, while eight-way, hand-tied springs are usually the most expensive option. Spring Down cushions with 1. It is about 90% as durable as nylon, and it is one of the most UV-stable webbings available. Another great option is the Pirelli WeatherActive. I bought some Pirelli Scopion AS Plus 3s for my SUV during the summer. I've had 3 sets of the Pirelli Scorpions. The springs provide a subtle bounce and contour to the body's curves, creating a comfortable and Nov 26, 2011 · I have been asked to reweb a set of contemporary furniture (chair, "ottoman", sofa). For those seeking a softer and more cushioned feel, seat constructions that incorporate sinuous springs or pocket coil springs are excellent choices. I won't carry sofas in my store that have Pirelli Webbing suspension, so as you can see I feel pretty strongly about it. Michelin is better since madaling maupod ng mga pirelli diablo given na soft compound tire siya. It doesn't stretch much, even in water. Feb 27, 2019 · Sinuous springs. 4 Ways To Fix Sagging Sofa Cushions Wikihow. Mar 1, 2023 · Nylon webbing. Sofa Ing Advice From The People Who Design And Make Them Wirecutter. Doesn’t bode well for long term. It can be used to replace original webbing or as an alternative to springs. 0 figuring the pillow top would counteract some of the firmness of the higher density cushion and that the higher density would hold up better as the sofa aged. Yeah- 24" sinuous springs are too long. Pirelli webbing is a type of rubber webbing that offers an excellent blend of support and comfort. Am I correct in assuming that this means it has so springs? I’ve googled and unfortunately haven’t found a lot of information. They consist of individual coil springs tied together in eight directions to create an even and flexible seating surface. I'm not sure what kind of furniture you're making, but I would recommend doing eight-way hand tied springs instead of zig zag spring. Comfort. The PZeros gripped well in the dry but were loud and harsh, without giving any real improvement in steering feedback or grip over the PS4S. It will work fine for medium firm cushions. The Insider's Guide to Furniture states "High quality, non-stretchable Pirelli webbing, when properly installed by a skilled craftsperson, should last 20 years and more. If you do go with just a flatboard, up the firmness of the cushions. I need some winter tires now and I'm looking at Pirelli Scorpion Winter (I know the Scorpion Winter 2 just came out but they aren't available in my size yet) but Blizzak and X-Ice are supposed to be the best winter tires. Oct 18, 2024 · Discover the ultimate showdown between webbing and springs for sofa support systems in this insightful article. Research these. First, I'd welcome any advice on this tension system. Apr 19, 2016 · When you buy furniture made with either sinuous wire or 8-way hand-tied springs, you'll enjoy a comfortable and supportive seat long after you first bring the piece into your home. The springs are wrapped in fabric pouches. Previous: Merry Christmas And Happy New Year! I don't know the technical difference but from my experience I've found that grosgrain is thinner, can be folded easier lengthwise and used more for trims where as webbing is thicker and used for heavy duty things such as molle-webbing and tie out points. Dec 6, 2024 · When comparing sinuous springs to other sofa support systems, here’s how they stack up: Sinuous Springs vs. It is made from natural fibers and is quite strong. Mar 1, 2013 · 8-way hand tied construction vs. they are very firm and you feel everything in the road. im not sure how much latitude is better than cc2, but its probably not too Sinuous refers to the visibility of one's body structure, both (and most commonly) muscles and body fat. it seems to be on par with cc2, with cc2 slightly better in wet/snowy conditions, but louder. And keep in mind that was in an age where more cars blew up than managed to take the chequered flag so you'd really have to go in race by race and analyse car positions when DNFing for Pirelli Scorpion AS 3 vs Continental Crosscontact LX25 Deciding between these two for my 2015 Audi Q5. House2home Webbing For Lawn Chairs And Furniture Upholstery To Repair Couch Supports Sagging Cushions 3 Inch Wide By 40 Foot Roll 10 Stretch Elastic Chair Replacement 40ft Continuous What's an upholstery suspension system? You've heard of 8-way hand-tied springs, sinuous springs & Pirelli webbing, but what are they? Click to learn more! Discover (and save!) your own Pins on Pinterest. My vote is for the Pirelli. hm, ok, thx, i think im gonna stick with the pirellis. The whole “8 way hand tied is better” argument is ultimately based on either broad blanket assumptions (that often mistakenly, or possibly knowingly, group together wildly different quality levels into 1 category), faulty logic (eg that old furniture from the 1950s or earlier with 8 way hand tied are still being used today), or “common practice” (eg that old school Mar 4, 2022 · In general, webbing makes a sofa more affordable than springs because the material is inexpensive and it's quick and easy to install. You’ll probably come across the term sinuous springs more than eight-way hand-tied , since it’s the most common suspension in low-to-mid-priced sofas. Sinous Springs Vs 8 Way Hand Tied Pirelli Webbing Wfmo Webbing differs A LOT between different webbing mills both in quality, finish, and tolerance. SUSPENSION/FOUNDATION: A sinuous spring system in-tied with metal clips. Lots of articles say not to use webbing and they are partially correct. It stretches and is easy to install. There are most likely springs in the base of the couch under the cushions anyway. " Low quality webbing (and/or less of it) could sag in a few years. The webbing below the springs was secured with tacks which are falling out, and the webbing itself is not in good condition. Sofa Webbing Vs 8 Way Handtied Springs Sinuous Spring Stylnn. Dec 4, 2017 · When you buy furniture made with either sinuous wire or 8-way hand-tied springs, y ou’ll enjoy a comfortable and supportive seat long after you first bring the piece into your home. Always been pleasantly surprised with their capabilities. Woodworking is your worldwide home for discussion of all things woodworking, carpentry, fine furniture, power tools, hand tools, and just about anything else about making - anything - from trees! Polyester is a common choice for webbing in the outdoor industry because it is strong, does not stretch, is UV-stable, and does not absorb water. I've had all three and while the blizzaks were great in slush and snow, I found a couple seasons in they felt significantly reduced in performance compared to the fall-off for the other two. The other question you had was about the “S” springs (sinuous springs) under the seat. That damn thin hugged curves like a tube top. Webbing used on lower priced seating (and on some not-so-cheap mass produced leather sofas) “stretches. The foam found in Spring Down cushions can be either 1. Dec 8, 2021 · Whether the seat is supported by coil springs, sinuous springs, or webbing, a failure in any of these will result in the seat sagging, the fabrics stressing, and the comfort decreasing. The rest of the upholstery is in good condition and I’d like to avoid redoing it. A product of the Pirelli Tyre company, which has been in business in Italy since 1972, Pirelli webbing is durable, cost-effective, and easy to assemble. We did 4 days on them, late winter early spring and they were great. goalkeeper gloves site. Lower quality webbing looks very similar to the high quality version. Even Is 8 Way Hand Tied And It Really The Best Lounge By Buildlane. Sinuous wire springs (and cheap webbing) are workable substitutes for lower-priced modern styles, but high-quality webbing is preferred for higher quality upholstery that is expected to last 20 years or more. Lower quality webbing stretches. I would definitely tie the springs a bit, even if they weren’t originally tied. eventide modfactor manual. If the webbing is re-stretched and springs re-tied there shouldn't be a need for springs inside the cushions. Have NO idea about the stuff used in place of webbing and springs. It has Pirelli rubber webbing and they're all old, dry, and there is no support left in the "webbing" strips. Different types of sofa springs like sinuous springs or coil systems cater to varying preferences for firmness and cushioning. How To Repair Sprung Springs Webbing In Upholstery Naturalupholstery Com. It looks clever, based on dowel rollers in slots in the chair frame, that allow you to feed the strap over the top with the loose end feeding back underneath and getting pinched They either wear like iron and never wear out or they wear out extremely fast. Still have the chaise section to do & thinking springs might be an upgrade. Pirelli web is cheap and easy to find, but you will have do remove the boards holding the springs on and tension it once replaced, which will be difficult. Learn about the differences between sinuous springs, 8-way hand-tied springs, and Pirelli webbing. Rubber or Pirelli webbing is also good. First manufactured in the 1950's, it's often found in mid century modern furniture. The webbing will only go on the seat and is attached by narrow staples/clamps. The eight way hand tied is the the best, but a good sinuous can be almost if not as good and will typically cost significantly less. I live in Minnesota so there's always snow on the horizon. 00 per tire. Jul 22, 2018 · Sinous Springs Vs 8 Way Hand Tied Pirelli Webbing Wfmo. sinuous springs vs coil springs sinuous springs vs coil springs. They are super quiet and comfortable. if you have bouncy springs like 100lb for instance the car will feel floaty and disconnected from the road. Both will give you a long-lasting very comfortable cushion since your weight is primarily on the coil springs rather than the foam. They don't get much attention, though, the evo3 is a BMW factory installed tire and available to order at a parts desk. This is my first time buying a set of 4 tires (225/45R17), so I don't have much knowledge, I'm trying to buy a good set of tires, around $100 - $150. Bonus, they cost WAY less than the P-Zero. An example of jute webbing. They have holes that you slip in strong metal rounds or rods that but hold the tension and you pull to tension the torsion springs and you release the tension the same way and you reposition the rounds as you de-tension and re-tension. Pics of : 8 Way Hand Tied Sofa Vs Sinuous Dec 26, 2021 · High quality, non-stretchable Pirelli webbing, when properly installed by a skilled craftsperson, should last 20 years and more. Kiln-dried hardwood for frames is 👍. Reply reply GA_peach_in_TX As the springs flex they will rub against whatever is touching them. Since there is a pillow top on the cushion, I was leaning towards the 3. OK, so if we go with the Omnia sofa, the next question is whether to get the 2. Comments on: Upholstery Suspension Systems: Sinuous Springs vs 8-way Hand-tied Springs vs Pirelli Webbing Mar 9, 2020 · Furniture Reupholstery Mumford Restoration. Pirelli has a higher UTQG rating, yet all the tire sites recommend the Continental, so it confused me. I've spent most of my adult life buying 2k couches and have always been disappointed in the cushion life. . Feb 7, 2020 · Sinuous Springs is a pretty good spring system as well, but only when it is done with high end quality. Webbing can be made of elastic bands, or out of natural fibres like jute. zxxi lrs dizr lxjlz zgb lnjov jxdwgq ndfx mafm lxznnm